Rivalwatch: World of Warcraft. Tradeskills.

[BigJonno]

Blizzard have added a tradeskills page. (http://www.blizzard.com/wow/townhall/tradeskills.shtml)

It seems to be similar to most MMORPGs, but made as user-friendly as possible. Clear recipes (with practical, logical ingredients,) no experimentation and no chance of failure. What do you think?

[Ævar Hrafn]

That looks like the best Crafting system I have seen so far in a MMORPG...but ofcourse you know mythica has said very little about the player made items or the crafting skills in general, so Im hoping that they will top it some how. I think that the WoW Devs were talking about you could only build certain items in certain parts of the world for some reason or another, dont remember it that well, read it like 2 months back.

[Bograt]

if your into crafting then SWG has by far the best crafting, when ur leveling up u still have the usual grind and making items no one wants but there is just so much u can do when u make weaponsmith/droid engineer/armorsmith etc.

shame the rest of the game sucked :(

[esion]

Wow that crafting looks really fun and cool. Looks a little extensive, but that is good, better than just buying something over and over and clicking over and over until maxxed.

[Bograt]

SWG, there is a ton of different minerals each with different qualities, u can then set up mining facilities then get solar or wind energy from power plants to fuel them, once collected u can experiment with different materials until u find one u like, u then can make a schematic.

then u put the schematic into a factory, tell it how many to make, add the required amount of minerals, and it will churn out all the items.

its very very involving, also, the resources shift on a regular basis, meaning u have to go find a new spot with a good concentration of the mineral u need and place ur mining facilities.

i think SWG Devs wanted crafting to be good and wanted the player economy to work, that most of there time was spent on that meaning the rest of the game lagged behind

[esion]

Yeah I know, I got master artisan, master architect, and others in two weeks...then quit because there was no end game...I had beta tested it for like 4 months...

I thought it was okay...fun, but really easy.

[Bograt]

same here, within 2 months i had

Master Artisan
Master Pistoleer
Master Entertainer
Master Musician
Master Marksman
Novice Creature Handler
Novice Bounty Hunter

(obviously not at the same time)

i did all that, and just quit, the PvP sucked no one really went to the arena's, i found myself just chatting in Cantina's and i can do that in Yahoo Chat for free

Could of been so good :(

[BigJonno]

The crafting in SWG was good once you'd got to the point where you had various facilities in place so you were making a bit of money. That way you could concentrate on finding the best raw materials and really working on your crafting.

[Vali]

Im not very excited about WoW's tradeskills.

It seems exactly like the "yawn" standard grind. Gather resources, click some buttons to produce something then repeat.

SWG's was cool for a bit. At first I thought it was going to be awesome having virtually everything in the game player created. It sounded awesome- and perhaps it could have been. Its just - once I got to the top of my professions I had very little to do. I realize this is all lack of content- but I think I would have had more fun if I could go whoop up on some NPC's and pick up a better flamethrower.. err whatever.


Though where these two games have failed.. I really believe that Mythica will spice things up quite a bit. Im very excited about the tradeskill system. Having my worshippers do the dirty work while I create the fun stuff. Very cool indeed. And it keeps me from clicking the same GUI for hours upon end. I await any news with anticipation.

-V

[Dankus]

How are trade skills in World of Warcraft different from those in other MMORPGs?
A great deal of effort has been made to make every item that is crafted useful so that players are not just creating items to increase their skills. Also, many of the raw materials needed will be found in dangerous locations throughout the world. Players are encouraged to adventure in order to gain ingredients - rather than just farm a distant, nondescript patch of land endlessly.

I love the idea that every item crafted is usefull. I hated wasting coin on stupid items in DAoC just for crafting xp.

Since I love to explore, finding specific items in dangerous parts of the world is nice too. However I don't mind keeping items rare, I'm not real sure I liked the SWG approach on this. They just moved a specific item completely off that server for while. I'd rather it be rare and hard to get than be completely removed.

Recipes will work every time. If you collect the proper ingredients to create an item, you don't have to worry about them being wasted due to failures. There's also no need to constantly experiment in World of Warcraft to find a combination of ingredients that will work. A recipe clearly lists what it will allow you to create and what raw materials are required. There's no guesswork (or surfing through dozens of Web sites) involved…

Amen and can I get a woot!?. SWG and DAoC though it was more real I suppose to have failures in crafting. I did not like that. When I craft, just let me make the thing. Maybe I get better quality items the more I craft, but I hate it when I break what I am crafting.

[BigJonno]

Having no chance of failure is a great feature. (BigJonno in "Gameplay over realism" arguement shocker.) Crafting failure adds absolutely nothing to the game. When crafting items with common ingredients, it's an annoyance. When crafting items with rare ingredients, it's tear-your-hair-out, log-out-and-sulk frustrating.

The way I see it, there are two kinds of crafting. There are the everyday things that you make to sell, improve your skill or give away to n00bs. (As a tailor in SWG I loved giving away clothes to new players.) You should be able to make these on your own from common raw materials.

The other kind is the rare stuff. These are the special items that you make for your own use, or on commission. These should involve a bit of questing, cooperation with other players or purchasing needed items from other NPCs.

I would like to see a system that didn't involve grinding (though I can't come up with one that isn't easily exploited,) and had a reward other than XP for the special items. This is so that people don't grind them out for the heck of it and devalue the item. Maybe a one-time reward the first time you make one. That way you're only going to make them when you need one or you're paid to do so.

[Bograt]

i agree with no Failure's! first time i built a medium house in SWG (thousands of materials) i got a critical failure when putting all the pieces together, i almost cried lol

i would however like to see a slight varience in attributes of constructed item.

Lets say i am making 10 broadswords for my friends, and the base damage is 50, maybe 2 of the swords come out with 49 dmg, maybe one has +1 dex, one has 51 dmg, one has less Durability

only small differences, but makes it more interesting to construct items

[esion]

i agree with no Failure's! first time i built a medium house in SWG (thousands of materials) i got a critical failure when putting all the pieces together, i almost cried lol

Try failing a guild hall....I saw the words, but couldnt comprehend it, I apoligized to the would be buyer,and logged immediately after.

I guess failing isnt a necessary thing, but it helps control flooding the market with items. And having the ability to fail prevents people from building items that are really high level at low levels. Thus it makes it so a person with only a lvl 10 crafting skill cant make lvl 50 items.

[Bograt]

oooooh ouch, i am fine failing a sword that takes 10 materials, but 10-50,000 materials and failing, theres no words to describe it

[BigJonno]

And having the ability to fail prevents people from building items that are really high level at low levels. Thus it makes it so a person with only a lvl 10 crafting skill cant make lvl 50 items.

I've only seen one game (Ultima Online) where that matters. All the other games I've seen work on a system where you get better recipes as you get more skilled or have a crafting system completely seperate to the main skill system.

[Seraphym]

Originally posted by BigJonno It seems to be similar to most MMORPGs, ... I would disagree with that statement. It isn't like most.

It is very much like Horizon's & UO.
It is vaguely similar to EQ & DAoC.
AC1 I don't remember and AC2 & SWG I can't comment on as I never made it past beta with those two games.

I loved it while in Horizon's - if WoW can do a better job with the game overall, I will be ecstatic. What can I say, I like tedium versus handing it off to others to do. ;)

I admit I don't know how Mythica will do crafting though. I've only seen snippets of info and life has kept me pretty busy to keep up with personal life let alone the games I am watching...

[BigJonno]

By similar I mean "You have a recipe. The recipe lists certain ingredients. You combine the ingredients, cross your fingers and attempt to craft the item." It's a pretty basic template that's true for most MMORPGs.

[esion]

I fail to see how any other crafting would work...i mean in RL you follow a recipe to make something, so there really isnt anything they can do.

One possibility could be have extra slots of "random" items, just toss in some "orc blood" and maybe you will get increased str on the item. Or something to that akin.

In SWG there was a dependence on quality and attributes of the items, that was innovative, but it just ended up being more of a pain in the arse to get good materials, than good. And half the time I couldnt tell the difference in the two products (crappy vs good).

I think Mythica will let the followers gather the items for crafting, and then you just put them together. Or maybe they can do everything, but you can give them unique items to incorporate into the items.

[Vali]

I dont mind the recipe template. Honestly I think its cool, and it easily allows the devs to add in new crafted goods at a later date. Not a bad way to handle tradeskills at all IMHO.

However,

I hate clicking on the same GUI for hours on end. It gets old real fast. Especially if youve been doing it with different titles over these past few years.

UO, SWG, EQ - Ive probably have 2 or 300 hours clicking on the same thing, over and over and over. ARRGGHH!!

Add that to the hours upon hours of farming for resources. I spent weeks in crystal caverns picking up crystal silk in eq. I lost track of how many hours I spent north of minoc in UO clicking for ore. SWG was mildly more fun. At least there I explored for good harvester spots. But how long can I continue to do this while still enjoying the game?? Its mind numbing to say the least

Id rather be questing- or grouping to fend off some big monstrosity.

Yes! Ill take 100 followers to do my farming please. Add extra fries and hold the tomato.

-V

[Dankus]

Try failing a guild hall....I saw the words, but couldnt comprehend it, I apoligized to the would be buyer,and logged immediately after.

:shocked: no way....

[Bograt]

ok how about if the recipe for the most basic of swords was

2 x Leather Strips
4 x Wood
6 x Metal

now u have your recipe but then u could try different wood/metal leather to see which comes out the best, Trying a Elm or Oak handle might give the sword different attributes

[Vali]

I know this isnt specific to tradeskills - but as far as WoW goes

Isnt it a little newbified??

I just looked over some of the released skills and was checking out thier forums and it really seems to me .. way simplistic.

Very little character development is left to the players. Your stats go up automatically.. most skills are just based simply by class.. etc.

-V

[Bograt]

your not wrong Vali, i dont think it will be as in depth as lets say EQ2, UXO, Mythica,

Thats why i think WoW might last me a few months, i really dont think its a long term game for me

[BigJonno]

Blizzard always do this. They have a reputation for boiling games down to their simplest components and creating some really tight gameplay as a result. Whether this works for a MMORPG remains to be seen.

[Vali]

Im sure it will be a solid playing game. It just feels soo lacking to me. Oh well. It will be worth its free month.

-V

[esion]

The tradeskill page has been updated. I am not if I like it...seems to be the simple way of doing things...go gather materials, make item, no experimentation, just simple routine...great for DX macroers

Fishing: Armed with their best fishing rods, Fishermen explore the world of Azeroth looking for new and interesting places to cast their lines. In addition to the varied fish population, all manner of aquatic treasure awaits the Fisherman with the skill and patience to reel it in.

Enchanting: Enchanters use their magical formulae to grant both temporary and permanent augmentation to weapons, armor, and other equipment.

Alchemy: The Alchemist mixes herbs to generate potions with a variety of effects. A player can create healing, invisibility, elemental resistance, and mana potions; oils to coat weapons; and much more.

Blacksmithing: Blacksmiths take bars of metal from miners and work them into finely crafted arms and armor. There are many unique weapons and other armaments that cannot be found on any of the vendors or monsters in the game, but can only be created by Blacksmiths.

Engineering: Engineering is used to assemble metal and stones into parts needed to make explosives, guns, scopes, bullets, mechanical dragons, aquatic helmets, and more. More than any other trade skill, engineering products require several steps to be completed.

Leatherworking: This skill allows players to work various leathers and pelts into leather armors as well as patches integral to the creation of higher-level, metallic armors and enhanced weapons.

Tailoring: Tailoring allows players to cut and weave various pieces of cloth into armor, bags, shirts, and other cloth items.

Cooking: From Beer-Basted Boar Ribs to Giant Clam Scorcho, there is no recipe too obscure or odd to avoid notice by the Chefs of Azeroth. Food is used in the game to heal players out of combat so that they can return to the fighting as quickly as possible.

Herb Gathering: Herb gathering is used to collect plants found throughout the world, with more powerful herbs requiring a higher skill level to find. Each type of herb has specific uses and places where it is found. For instance, Grave Moss must be sought in cemeteries, whereas Wintersbite grows in snowy areas.

Mining: Mining is used to extract ores, stones, and gems from mineral nodes found throughout the world. Generally, more of these nodes can be found in the dangerous underground than on the surface. In addition to gathering the raw materials, it's up to the miners to smelt the ores taken from the ground into metal bars. These are the raw materials that artisans such as Blacksmiths and Engineers will transform into deadly weapons and wondrous objects.

...And more!


I wonder what the and more could be...