MMOG vs. Table-top Characters

[Ostracized]

When D&D began it was very much an underground entertainment form. Kids and young adults got together late at night in a basement somewhere and pretended to be mighty warriors cleaving their foes in half with 1 or 2 hits, or powerful sorcerers gaining power over demon and man alike. It was a world of mystery to most and most mistook it as simple as a fade, and some even viewed it as a Cult that brainwashed its players. As time moved on of course it has turned into a type of art form almost. So detailed in its world creation abilities that some have seen School Studies and general knowledge like arithmetic and language skills increase for players. People can spend many, many years playing a single character, and even more reliving these adventures.

So why is it when placing a traditional fantasy world on a MMOG, we find even the hardcore Role-playing crowd turns it into stats and numbers rather then just living the adventure?

In order to understand this one must take what made the traditional Tabletop style of play so addictive. There are many differences in personal opinion however one thread seems to come through.

The player CARES about his character. They care because they place a small (or for some large) amount of themselves into that character. They can create a past and create future goals that can mesh in the game world to make it feel real and reactionary. No matter the level of Role-player or maybe he doesn’t even consider himself one, they will still care about their character if they are allowed to live through it.

Affecting the world as only a person can is a must. If you are running your character around the world and nothing you do matters, then what place does your character have in the world? Can he be the hero when the evil wizard just returns for more every time to terrorize the small village? Why should she risk her own life when the shopkeeper that is being robbed will just return later with the same store? This style of gaming tends to remind the player time and time again, the story goes on with or without them. Thus drawing them away from the actual fantasy and bringing them forehead to screen with the fact they really... don’t... matter.

Another issue that reminds the player that it’s only just a game is the way most MMOGs handle death. Death needs to teach a lesson so mistakes can be rectified. But losing a character you spent allot of time on can be a harsh attitude for most. It is not that anyone truly cares about the character they have played, but rather then time wasted when that character dies. Again it turns into stats, time wasted... not truly feeling bad for a fantasy. MMOGs tend to force you to lose a fraction of that time your invested; this is an effort to make someone care about being careful with their character. The problem is again it reminds the player that it is a game and not a living-breathing world they are adventuring in. It again leads to number crunching to find exactly what the best Risk vs. Rewards on any given action one takes.

Instead of seeing the Poor shopkeeper getting robbed and thinking, "well my character would not stand for this so I yell out to the crook to get his attention" or even "he he, I tell the robber if I help him he cuts me in on the profit", you have a situation where the player simply sees if defending the Shopkeeper nets him enough reward (money or/and experience) to chance dying against the robber. Adding to this is the common /consider system which tells the player in blatant form if he can defeat the Robber or not. Meaning even if the player WANTED to help, he couldn’t so he continues on his journey looking for an easier way to get rewards.

So, the question is... can a MMOG ever capture the love someone can feel for a character made and played with on the traditional Table-top games? Of Course they can.

But only after designers of these MMOGs begin to realize what made the Table-Top great to begin with. I can guarantee the moment some company develops a game that allows your character the freedom to act on his instincts or desires and effect the game world in some way, they will have a hit as big as the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons revolution.

Give us a world where our actions matter, and where our characters can actually have a history... and a future and you will forever change the MMOGs from statistics to an actual world we can live in from time to time.

[JonnyG]

Great stuff Ostracized. I love this part.Give us a world where our actions matter, and where our characters can actually have a history... and a future and you will forever change the MMOGs from statistics to an actual world we can live in from time to time.
Make us matter!!!

[Elvis]

I actually have an MMORPG design I've been fiddling with for some time that would give you exactly what you want. Now, if only someone would hire me as a designer :)

[JonnyG]

Originally posted by Elvis
I actually have an MMORPG design I've been fiddling with for some time that would give you exactly what you want. Now, if only someone would hire me as a designer :)
Blizzards looking (http://www.mythicahq.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=18874#post18874). :)

[Elvis]

Heck if they want to establish a studio up here in the Seattle area, then I'm all over it ;)

[Jotun]

This is part of what I alluded to in my recent column (http://www.mythicahq.com/features/staff/2004/01/roleplaying.shtml) when I asked about characters that people remembered.

"How many of you have fond memories of tabletop RPG characters you played 5 years ago? 10 years ago? How many of you have memories of characters you played in a computer game a year ago? 2 years? There is far more emotional investment in a tabletop RPG character, more perceived ownership, and much more of an ability to personalize a character and make it your own, although this is changing to an extent in the MMO arena, which I'd say is a GoodThing™."

Nicely done, Ostra.

[Elvis]

Two of my favorite RPG characters ever came from MMORPGs... AC1 specifically. While they had little influence on the game at large, they still involved a lot of time on my part to create.

Foremost among the two favorites was Shi Kaifu, a Sho storyteller and travelling (mad) monk. An excerpt from a bio on Kaifu:"These nights seem to grow colder, do they not? Ahh... I long for the fire near the hills of my birth. Did I ever tell you about my past, my friend? It's strange, but I don't recall much of my life as a young boy. Mountains... A people very unlike these so-called "civilized" Sho among us. That's about it, I'm afraid... Every so often a song comes to my head or a foreign word pops into my mind of whose origins I cannot determine. Ah, but what a great story that will be if I ever make it back to our homelands, eh? In the mean time I poke the fire and keep us, and our food, warm. Shh... Did you hear that? That's a Mattaker... Probably a Great Mattaker. You see, they can smell human flesh from miles away. They're easy to be wary of, however, because they lick their chops at the scent of us, and, since they have rather large jowls, it makes a very loud noise that gives them away...

"Hah! Boy, don't take me so seriously. Yes, I know Dereth fairly well, but there are others far more learned than I. If you feel you want to know the truth but are too lazy to get up off your butt, go find some Blademaster or some traveled noble. I'm sure they'll have their own overblown yarns of "horrible beasts the size of Mount Eido" to tell.

"Do you want to know what perils lie out in the wilderness? Grab a tent and a bedroll and find out for yourself, Impatient One. Besides, what I have to tell you is so much coloured in the way of the Tale that you might be misled and think that a Tumerok was in fact a Drudge and that Wasps were forty feet high... though at times, in my dreams, I can tell you, they are quite quite large. There was this time I was running from a rather large wasp. A red one with fangs the size of my forearm and it was spitting fire out of its large gaping jaw. When I awoke with a scream — just as it had stuck its forty foot long stinger into my back — I realized it was nothing but a fruit fly on my nose... Oh... yes... well, on your way. If you find anything interesting be sure to tell me. Iiwah be with you.One of the biggest reasons why I loved this character so much was that I made a pretty detailed background for him, using the backstory the devs had already made... and I got noticed. Noticed by Chris "Stormwaltz" L'Etoile who built the Tou-Tou area of the AC1 world and had a lot to do with it's design and involvment in the backstory of the game. When I wrote "The Reclamation of the Temple of Iiwah (http://classic.zone.msn.com/asheronscall/ASHEIiwah.asp)" and it got posted to the MS Zone, he sent me an email. Another of my stories as Kaifu, Dream Visage (http://classic.zone.msn.com/asheronscall/ASHEdreamvisage.asp), is still featured on the AC Zone site.

[Jotun]

That's excellent!
"One of the biggest reasons why I loved this character so much was that I made a pretty detailed background for him"

This definitely is part of it, IMO. I may be wrong, but my guess is you're the exception here rather than the rule...i.e. I doubt most people do much of this.

It is like half a circle. The game influences you and your character, but your character isn't generally allowed to influence the world (even if just for that character). PRealms will change that at least a little.

Another piece tied into that is stories. Great stories spawned by great adventures and narrow escapes cement those memories of a character. Enhancing this is in Mythica will be quality depth of gameplay, especially having some tactical options, not to mention the whole heroic atmosphere...just look at the VorAkur video when the fire giant shows up...

[Ostracized]

Originally posted by Elvis
Two of my favorite RPG characters ever came from MMORPGs... AC1 specifically. While they had little influence on the game at large, they still involved a lot of time on my part to create.

Foremost among the two favorites was Shi Kaifu, a Sho storyteller and travelling (mad) monk. An excerpt from a bio on Kaifu:One of the biggest reasons why I loved this character so much was that I made a pretty detailed background for him, using the backstory the devs had already made... and I got noticed. Noticed by Chris "Stormwaltz" L'Etoile who built the Tou-Tou area of the AC1 world and had a lot to do with it's design and involvment in the backstory of the game. When I wrote "The Reclamation of the Temple of Iiwah (http://classic.zone.msn.com/asheronscall/ASHEIiwah.asp)" and it got posted to the MS Zone, he sent me an email. Another of my stories as Kaifu, Dream Visage (http://classic.zone.msn.com/asheronscall/ASHEdreamvisage.asp), is still featured on the AC Zone site.

I never spent alot of time back then on fansites and other such stuff. So enlighten me dimming mind abit.

When you were reconized on the AC zone sight by the designer, did it effect anything in how they designed or added little touches?

Did your detailed history have even the slightest impact on the world at large.. even so small as a same spelled shop keepers sign??

If so then id say you fall exactly how i wrote. your imagination had an impact... even a small one. Id bet to imagine that even by just getting the acknowledgement from a Dev alone was good enough to make you think more indepth about the character and not just about what stats he had.

My favorite memories of character are NOT in MMOGs. however the one i remember the best was a character i created for the Guide program in EQ.

Nalet the Shadowed Blade

A dark Elf warrior that became the patron to all the Shadow Men running around the world. He was their god and i roleplayed him as such.

The GMs liked it so much as well as the players that I started work on a peristant character design. RL reasons took me away from it before i could implement it but with the GMs help i had been given an arpertunity to actually change something about the game and personallize it based off my imagination.

I will forever keep that character design in my highest MMOG character memories.

[Elvis]

Before AC1 was released, I wasn't so much of an exception to the rule. Afterward, yes, definately. AC1 was an interesting game in that it had all this great backstory for the player races, including cultural sects, races, fables, belief systems... yet the writers who worked on the monthly updates really didn't exploit all that information to its fullest.

For those who aren't familiar, Asheron's Call, or AC1, is a game where the player character races are actually unwitting travellers from one world (the planet Isparia) to another (a continent called Dereth on the planet Auberean). They have thousands of years of history and culture and arrive on a planet that has been overrun by a monster race (the Olthoi) and later reclaim and begin to settle it. The game "starts" a few years into the resettlement.

Granted, the backstory for Auberean was even more deep and detailed when compared to Isparia, but social customs and structure rarely stuck their heads out in the game... which I felt was a pity. Where was the Washui Iiwah Jou Gai, for example?

[Scarne]

Originally posted by Elvis
Before AC1 was released, I wasn't so much of an exception to the rule.

I think you were. I don't really recall meeting any RPers at all when I was in the AC1 beta. I think perception can be distorted by the RP types tending to be among the more prolific board posters before release, making them seem like they are a higher population segment than they are. Just how like the PvP types tend to overwhelm the class/skill balance discussions later on.

[Elvis]

Originally posted by Ostracized
When you were reconized on the AC zone sight by the designer, did it effect anything in how they designed or added little touches?Not to my knowledge. My character was way out there in terms of his presence in the game world. While my "cult" was an offshoot of of the Washui Iiwah Jou Gai (created by Turbine designers) the WIJG wasn't even present in Derethian culture in terms of the game itself... which, again, was something I found disappointing in the game. All this lovely Isparian backstory and the only part of it that really shone through was the Aluvian side... and very little of it (Aluvian, Sho and Gharu'ndim were the three player "Heritage Groups" or races).

My work didn't go unnoticed and I didn't end up being of no influence however. My writing and involvement with the game eventually helped land me a spot on Turbine's Vanguard team (their external invite-only testing team made of players). In Vanguard I was able to give feedback and suggestions on a lot of stuff.

But, again, no physical presence exists of my efforts. It simply didn't fit into the greater scheme of the story arcs that were in development. It's sort of like creating a table-top character with a really rich background and the world your GM created, but having them not really fit in with the "squad" or group that character is running with.Originally posted by Scarne
I think you were. I don't really recall meeting any RPers at all when I was in the AC1 beta. I think perception can be distorted by the RP types tending to be among the more prolific board posters before release, making them seem like they are a higher population segment than they are. Just how like the PvP types tend to overwhelm the class/skill balance discussions later on.I don't know about you, but I was surrounded by people who were interested in the backstory and wanted to create characters that fit in with it. Not all of them really knew how to or even wanted to create in-depth backgrounds, but there were a bunch of groups that used the backstory specifically to create their characters. Now, I never said I was in the majority, but I wasn't an exception to the rule during beta. Everyone was excited about the game and there was all this nifty backstory. What there wasn't was any plotline (these came when the game launched and had monthly updates) and that's why the backstory was so popular back then.

My little guy Kaifu is part of his own group, but his origins were with another group called the Shochu Horde... they were the Sho equivalent of the Mongols of ancient China. Unfortunately, the Shochu Horde didn't last long and ended up being dissolved. I managed to "convert" a number of players during the first couple years after launch, but without enough support from the game's systems (i.e. no Isparian info) it was too difficult.

The AC Live team recently went back into bringing some Isparian stuff into the forefront, but at this point it's too easy to lose track of it. There's so much going on in AC1 that it gets eclipsed by other aspects of the game.