Power vs Casual

[Dagfari]

Here’s an idea that brings the ‘Power Gamers’ and the ‘Casual Gamers’ together.

>>>More (http://forums2.warcry.com/flat_read.phtml?f=168&id=117017&thread=117017)

[Scarne]

Yeah, I like the way that Guild Wars sounds like it more about increasing options rather than direct power increases.

A Tale in the Desert was also that way. Increasing 'level' in that was mostly increasing the number of items you could craft. But generally, the new stuff to be crafted relied upon the lower layers. If you are at the top of the crafting level, you can't really be self-sufficient since it would take to long to gather and process all the lesser components you need to make the advanced stuff. So the lower level folks always have a niche doing some of the lower level gruntwork for the higher level folks.

[JonnyG]

As a casual gamer that wants to / used to be a power gamer before wife and kids, I'm for anything that will allow me to play with my friends that are. So I like giving more options to people that play longer rather than just straight up power.

[Moloch]

I'm a fan of casual gamers. I think that a lot of game designers have been 'captured' (to use a marketing term) by expert powergamers and roleplayers. The net effect is that RPGs tend to miss engaging the significant untapped potential of the casual gaming consumer.

That being said, I don't see anything in Dagfari's idea that would appeal to powergamers.
Simply having the time to endlessly play a game doesn’t make your character worthy of the power that time represents.

My question is: Then what does?

Gamers have only two resources (ebay excepted) which they input into a non-twitch game: time and knowledge. The best powergamers use their knowledge of the game to maximise the return they get from their time. They're not just playing longer, they're playing 'better'. Remove rewards appropriate for input and you'll lose anyone whose motivation for playing is status.

But I think Dagfari's correct in suggesting that the current crop of MMORPG's game philosopohies need reworking to accomodate both the powergamer and casual gamer. How to do it?

My opinion is in next Monday's Madrigal.

[Elvis]

Planetside is an MMORPG whose model makes it not-so-much a powergamer's delight, but a "player skill" based game where time spent playing only broadens your options instead of making you more powerful. I would say that Command Rank, in the end, actually makes you pretty powerful if only in that you can call for a global strike on a target and annihilate everything in a particular area.

But... PS is not every MMORPGer's cup of tea... and it's boring.

[Scarne]

Heck, and besides killing ability, what about crafting in regards in power vs casual. Has any game managed to develop a crafting system which doesn't reward time/resources poured into it?

[JonnyG]

Originally posted by Scarne
Heck, and besides killing ability, what about crafting in regards in power vs casual. Has any game managed to develop a crafting system which doesn't reward time/resources poured into it? Great point. Crafting shouldn't be a grind either, hopefully Mythica's let others do the work, you finalize it will make crafting fun.

[Yigg Yous]

i cant find the article, but they said that crafting isn't going to be about amount. its quality over quantity. They also noted that you set goals for yourself and after acheiving them you get an award according to how great the goal is.

from GameRifts

Yes and Yes. Immortal Crafting is less about you hitting a rock for eight hours and more about collecting the Human, Alfar, and Dvergar followers who can provide the raw, refined, and finished resources you craft into something beyond their collective abilities (well, maybe not greater than some of the elder Dvergar). Of course, some resources are only attainable by powerful immortals willing to face unspeakable horrors in regions no mortal can tread…so, dedicated crafters not keen on a bit of the old ultra-violence will need to forge relationships with others to get their hands on the goodies.

hope that can help you guys.

[Scarne]

But really, how much does Mythica change the time/resources for crafting? All it is doing is removing the tedium of gathering and refining basic crafting components. You still have to put in the time to gather as many of the proper follower types as possible. You still need a powerleveler to grab the rare materials from the tough dungeons. And we don't know if the crafting is a grind regardless. Can you craft a sword +5 on day 1 as long as you have the materials? Or do you have to spend a while making some sword +1s, then some sword +2s, etc until you work your skill up to crafting those sword +5s?

[Yigg Yous]

aye, thats the first part. Im on the lookout for the second, which states that instead of having to click on the build a Large Hammer button all day, you just set goals, perhaps run a consignment (aka make something for an NPC and then sell it to him in a given time limit. better quality better cash), and if you complete these goals you earn rewards (mabye skill, or materials that are hard to find).