Class Specialization...Is 6 enough?

[JonnyG]

Hal tells us more about the You Are What You Wear concept in part one of our interview (http://theagency.massivehq.com/special-features/qa1_part1#Specialties).For combat we have a weapons specialist and a tactical specialist. Weapons specialist can use all the weapons and is the best at them. Tactical is the combat guy you want to have up front to breach doors, to provide good suppression fire, etc.

For Stealth you have two specialties, we have Spec Ops and Psy Ops (formerly known as Assassin). Spec Ops is about infiltration, disabling security, etc. Whereas Psy Ops is about manipulating enemy AI, confusing them, distracting them etc. Both will be particularly deadly if they sneak up without alerting AI (or another player).

And then in Support we have the Field Tech and the Field Medic. And those have nice distinguishing features between them. The Field Tech can lay down turrets, custom check points, rehab certain features on a character like armor repairs, etc. A Field Medic is about reviving, adding/clearing buffs, etc. Both support roles are very capable with short and medium range weapons.

Big question to you is are 6 specialties enough? Do people feel MMO's should have tons of classes to allow people to play unique roles? Or should they be limited to the actual roles that they play so that the classes better fit these roles?

One thing that concerns me slightly is that the skills for a specialty seem to be completely based off rank within that specialty. Doh, I missed asking this during the interview, too many questions, not enough time. It seems like there is no skill tree, so every rank 3 assassin(sorry like that one better) will have the same set of skills. The weapon's and weapon skills, and weapon add ons to do like they provide some individualization, but is that enough?

[esion]

KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. Its one of the first things they teach you as an engineer. IMO I think less classes is better.

I hate in MMOs these days hearing things like "How did you spec your (insert class here)?" or "You really gimped that char because we all know that (insert skill line here) is so much better!" or "Dont make a (insert race) (insert class) combo they just arent as good as ...."

If you can limit the amount of descrimination that happens in MMOs then people might play more. Its always hard to find/make a group when you need a perfect combination of classes to get things really going. I would love just to see a game where 3 assassins can complete as much as 3 medics. NOW I understand that having a mixed group allows for a better kill/rest ratio but sometimes I dont have time to wait for an hour to make the perfect group.

Lets hope that The Agency can work a system that no matter what specialty you pick you can still have fun and play with all your friends.

[JonnyG]

Another question that I forgot to ask Hal. We get access to new outfits when we rank up our overall ranking, is there ever a reason to use the lower ranked outfits? Kind of like they had with the weapons?The way that that works is, say I’m the highest ranked agent that has access to the highest ranked pistols. Even if I’ve never used pistols before, I could grab the highest ranked pistol and start using it and get some of the benefits, slightly increased damage, and faster firing rate. As I use it, I’ll add use based experience within that tier, the high tier. Now some of the skills within that tier, I’ll be able to unlock, but some might be dependent on skills in an earlier tier as well. So that means that players using that high rank pistol, they may be cool with that, but then they see a skill that they can’t get unless they go back and use a lower rank weapon.
The more we learn, the more questions I have. I really wish they'd let more info out.

[Leoghan]

Esion I disagree, the problem you are describing is not that there are too many choices for classes. The problem you are describing is a case where some class based skills are useless compared to others. In addition you've described a situation where content is made with one group layout in mind rather than taking into account all the varieties of groups that there could be.

I'll give an example, in SWG there are "expertise" trees that allow you to increase the power of skills or unlock new skills. For the Bounty Hunter profession there is a tree that gives you greater use of carbine weapons and a tree for rifle weapons. Currently to take skills from the carbine tree would gimp your character for two reasons: First the best carbine in game is not nearly as good as the best rifle in game. Secondly the skills in the carbine tree did not give similar advantages to this weapon choice.

Surprisingly the dev's are making a concerted effort to change this, to bring both of these tree branches inline with each other. In most cases though dev's never take the time to fix these imbalances or even prevent them from taking place to begin with. But this does not mean the concept of differentiated class skills is a bad one.

Now after that long defense of the concept I'll say this as a caveat. I like to see games that give us the ability to make our characters anything but cookie cutter. I don't want all assassins (or medics or anything else) to be alike if they choose not to be, but I do want to see the skills given to a profession fit within that professions role. I don't want to see assassins that can tank, or medics that can sneak up and kill silently.

JonnyG I really like the idea of tier based unlockables, so that it give you a reason to go back and play with lower level content.

[esion]

Oh, dont get me wrong Leo, I dont want medics sneaking and assassins rezzing. But at the same time I dont want to see an assassin choose to use a shotgun be gimped because he is not a stereotypical assassin who uses a sniper rifle. Or dont make a medic in a bad situation if he decides he wants to go into the thick of battle and shoot his machine guns.

There is a fine line between too many classes and too basic. For instance in a fantasy game if you had fighters, mages, theives and healers, it would be boring. But if you have a game that has five pure fighters, twelve fighter hybrids, five pure mages, then twleve mage hybrids, and then five pure thieves and tweleve theive hybrids, then five healers, and twelve healer hybrids its chaos...groups cant form because X class can do Y things, but Z class cant do A things, and A class has a better buff than B class, but B class can out tank C class...blah blah blah. IT ALWAYS ends up that the pure classes are WAY better than the hybrids because the devs have to take away from a hybrids main skills so that they dont out weigh the pure classes. Hence these classes become hybrids of various skills, some from each but never as good as the main thing. This also goes back to pure skill lines in WoW. You end up gimping your char if you spread your skills out too much, so most people suggest doing a single spell line to max, then spreading your skill out from there. DAOC had this same issue as well.

Its a tough situation that all current games are struggling with. Most new games are trying to make new classes and create a little buzz or imagination. Everyone seems to want to do everything now a days. People get bored with a single class, hence why people make so many alts and level them up.

[Leoghan]

Ok I see what you are saying a little better now, Esion. I agree with you for the most part. I don't think I like the idea of hybrid classes to begin with.

I'd rather see a basic skill set that is strong and viable for each class and then see a set of additional skills that can make the character unique. For instance I have no problem with an Assassin that has taken a few first aid classes, doing some light healing out of combat and a medic should know how to shoot and defend his group when the cards are down.

One thing that I think will make this the most interesting given the Agency is that you can change your role with the swapping of a suit. You can't do this in the middle of mission, but you can still try new things without having to re-roll or roll an alt character.

[Horatious]

I agree with you esion.

This game should also be able to get away with one class being able to do numerous things much easier than most. Having only a handful of classes gives the game more longevity too, due to added classes in the future creating more excitement.

[esion]

After watching the behind the scenes video of the game, I was highly intrigued by the "outfit determines class" basis. This makes the game more fun because you can basically play any class you want, or any class that is needed based upon your group make up. This could be much better for the casual gamer, and even allow people to see multiple classes in the game much more easily.

[Leoghan]

The outfit based class system is a nice way to allow cross class progression, but to prevent it from creating uber templates.

You can play any class or every class, but you can only take those class skills with you that are tied to your outfit. This does beg the question though if any skills are shared between classes.

[JonnyG]

I agree with you esion.

This game should also be able to get away with one class being able to do numerous things much easier than most. Having only a handful of classes gives the game more longevity too, due to added classes in the future creating more excitement.

Welcome to the boards!!! I'd say duck, but only a few people around here remember the good ole days of MythicaHQ and being greeted by a flying chair.

I think the you are what you wear concept is one of the coolest things of the game. Behind operatives, the theme... Hmm there is a lot to like about the game.

No more looking for clerics, just have someone switch to be a medic.

I do like how locking down the skills to those that you've earned in the outfit will keep people from multi classing and using all the skills. So it keeps the different roles being a wanted part of a group.

[Horatious]

Welcome to the boards!!! I'd say duck, but only a few people around here remember the good ole days of MythicaHQ and being greeted by a flying chair.

I think the you are what you wear concept is one of the coolest things of the game. Behind operatives, the theme... Hmm there is a lot to like about the game.

No more looking for clerics, just have someone switch to be a medic.

I do like how locking down the skills to those that you've earned in the outfit will keep people from multi classing and using all the skills. So it keeps the different roles being a wanted part of a group.

Thank you, and I read up on the history of this place before joining. It seems like you guys have a good group of dedicated players.

The skills being stuck to one 'suit' seems like a great idea. Are there any other tidbits of info you guys know on the characters/skills that aren't described in the videos?

[JonnyG]

Thank you, and I read up on the history of this place before joining. It seems like you guys have a good group of dedicated players.

The skills being stuck to one 'suit' seems like a great idea. Are there any other tidbits of info you guys know on the characters/skills that aren't described in the videos?
I've put pretty much everything that is known so far at Intel (http://theagency.massivehq.com/intel-briefing/). That being said parts 2 - 4 of our interview with the lead designer have some new goodies on missions, combat, operatives, and the like. Part 1 (http://theagency.massivehq.com/special-features/qa1_part1) is pretty much about characters and skills. We're hoping to get part 2 approved really soon, and it will be posted as soon as we do.

[Horatious]

Sounds good, and I feel like I'm at work now with intel briefings. Maybe this game isn't for me! Haha

[RoiDvRAG3]

6 is not to much not to little just perfect

[Agent-1]

6 does seem to be a decent number, although it depends on whether their are paths within the six or not. Although we already know that you can specialize in one weapon or another by using them more, so that does lead to some alternate paths.

[RoiDvRAG3]

They said that for the 6 roles there would be 2 side roles to pick so you have 12 basically with tons of weapons and items to master then you have multiplayer and then make your own massive Agency

[JonnyG]

They said that for the 6 roles there would be 2 side roles to pick so you have 12 basically with tons of weapons and items to master then you have multiplayer and then make your own massive Agency
Actually I think it's 3 roles (combat, stealth, and support) with 2 specialties in each role, as described on the character (http://theagency.massivehq.com/intel-briefing/characters/) page.
Combat – if you want to blow things up, put on your combat outfit and start shooting. Specialties include:

Weapons Specialist – This speciality can use all the weapons and is the best at all of them
Tactical Specialist – This speciality is the combat guy that you want to have up front to breach doors, to provide good suppression fire, etc. They’re the ones that really help you advance you advance through the space.

Stealth – if you feel like sneaking around, try the stealth outfit. Specialties include:

Spec Ops – This speciality is all about infiltration, disabling security, etc.
Psy Ops / Assassin – This speciality is about manipulating enemy AI, getting close enough to do stealth take downs, confusing them. Essentially the kind of things that you’d assume a mezzer would do in a standard fantasy game.

Support – if you want to buff the others, heal them, use auto turrets, then support is for you. Specialties include:

Field Tech – this specialist can lay down turrets, custom check points, rehab certain features on a character like armor repairs, etc.
Field Medic – this speciality is about reviving, adding buffs, clearing buffs, etc.

* Both support roles are very capable with short and medium range weapons.

Although the rest of the points you make are valid.

[RoiDvRAG3]

OO my bad mustve confused it im wonderin if there will be any HEAVY machine guns like an M-60 ive been seen it pop up like you can walk into a nice club in camo and an M-60 on your back? is that just him pullin a gun outta his a*s or are ther really m-60s?

[PointlesS]

6 is fine...it seems anymore and it just gets too specific...I'm a little confused about outfits though...so you have 3 outfits with 2 different specialties per outfit...you can change outfits whenever but if you choose a specialty are you locked into that specialty for that outfit? or can you change it at any point?

[JonnyG]

6 is fine...it seems anymore and it just gets too specific...I'm a little confused about outfits though...so you have 3 outfits with 2 different specialties per outfit...you can change outfits whenever but if you choose a specialty are you locked into that specialty for that outfit? or can you change it at any point?
Basically when you put on the outfit you choose which specialty you want. And you're locked into that for the mission. But if you go back to the HQ you can then switch to the other specialty or another outfit and specialty.

[RoiDvRAG3]

Jonny are you ganna try to do an interview part 4 on weapons? and gadgets ?

[Agent D47]

OO my bad mustve confused it im wonderin if there will be any HEAVY machine guns like an M-60 ive been seen it pop up like you can walk into a nice club in camo and an M-60 on your back? is that just him pullin a gun outta his a*s or are ther really m-60s?

We saw plenty of gatling guns used by ParaGON. Or well plenty, I think it was everytime the same gun, but still. And it is HEAVY.

[Agent D47]

Basically when you put on the outfit you choose which specialty you want. And you're locked into that for the mission. But if you go back to the HQ you can then switch to the other specialty or another outfit and specialty.

I'm thinking in what the link between the specialties is. If there is no, the only reason of combining them in one 'class' is to let them wear the same clothes, so actualy then there woulded be any specilitation, because there would be 6 diffrent instead of 3 and 2 specialties in each.

I think there will be some overlap between those which are in one outfit'class'. Like that both tactical and weapon specialists can use a passive-skill like better accuracy.

The advange of this would be, that you can 'train' in one outfit'class' and have some passive-skills that you can use for both specialities. That makes you broader deployable. But you have the option to go all the way in one speciality, which gives that you are little bit less deployable, but better equiped in THE one speciality. O goodness, I love this game:D

[RoiDvRAG3]

Im going to level up In Tactical and Weapons Specialist it just fits my personality Also for support why isnt ther a heavy gunner? or is that the Weapon specialists job?

[Agent D47]

Im going to level up In Tactical and Weapons Specialist it just fits my personality Also for support why isnt ther a heavy gunner? or is that the Weapon specialists job?

I think the heaviest gunnery is done by the weapon specialist or maybe the tactical man.

I think I'm going to do that branch:D. Although I'm also still thinking of getting in the supportive branch, since they are also pretty good in handling small and medium guns and their specialties are very usefull. I don't think a sniperrifle is a medium gun, otherwise I would think support&sniper would be a great combination. Since you don't walk in front as support, it fits really to the sniperrole, which actualy also isn't at best in front:).

I really hope there is some good overlap between the two specialities within one outfitclass.

Btw, I'm actualy not decisive till I know the weapons and skills. So nice talk for now, making the waiting for the game more survivable:P, but it's not really saying that much about my further choice:$.